Suspension Basics II, Real Deal Stuff!

[Delta 4 Wheel]

In all seriousness, if you developed a bolt/weld on 4 link kit with some economy coilovers and got it into Jim at WH's, you would sell a ton. If you don't know Jim, I can and will get you in. He would be interested if it wasn't a hack up kit and was considered safe. If you decided to sell it yourself, that would be good, but Jim has a huge marketing base. It would be cool to set up the kit at a 2-3 stage kit with 4 corner coils, economy coilovers, then some nicer ones. Have the kit set up to order different length rear bars to push the rear out 6-12 inches or so. No one has anything like this...which is a surprise.

[Familyman]

If you decided to sell it yourself, that would be good, but Jim has a huge marketing base. It would be cool to set up the kit at a 2-3 stage kit with 4 corner coils, economy coilovers, then some nicer ones. Have the kit set up to order different length rear bars to push the rear out 6-12 inches or so. No one has anything like this...which is a surprise

I agree this would be excellent to build several levels of kits . I was thinking of only moving the rear back 4-6" because due to gas tank limitations you would have to due a custom fuel tank or fuel cell otherwise. Plus I know we have an EB out there with its rear back 4" that could be our test rig. Since I think whatever rig is used will need to test the rig in a variety of situations. My bro sold the guy who owns Rubicon Express his house and in my brothers conversations with him it sounds like that has been the big difference for them is that they spent alot of R&D time before they released any of their products.

I spoke to Gravel Maker a couple of days ago and will be talking to him again this week. He really wants this to be a group effort in the sence of getting lots of input from us on the developement of the kit so that it would be something we would use/buy. I am researching all the 4-link thread on pirate and picking up a suspension book next week so I can be well informed. Just the info on pirate makes my head hurt but this is really cool stuff with lots of potential for ajustability based on the type of wheeling you will do.

[720Racer]

Someone local to you up there should jump on this. Delta, Daddy4Zack, FFMDX, 720, FordCore, FM, anyone? I'll just hook up with Gravel Maker afterwards and buy the parts from him.

I would like to continue making parts for the ignored vehicles, EB's are in the good company of Scouts and FJ40's, most companies ignore them because they don't have the jillions made the J*** nameplate has.....I would like to be a manufacturer of EB specific parts.

Gravel Maker,

I'm going to run a D60 (78 f-250) but stock width and stock wheel base, would this be a good rig for your test fit, or would it be too different from a 9 inch? The stock 9 inch is under the rig now, and we could set everthing up with it, but I'd like it to end up with the D60 when it's all said and done. I've got my rear leafs in the parts pile, but at this point in my build, it would be easy to switch it up and go 4 link, not to mention easy to fab with the tub off. I don't have to take my rig out of commission to do this, I'm figuring it will be a few months till it's on the road, anyhow.

Let me know if you think this would work, it's the least I could do for the club

Galen

[Daddy4zack]

So If I read this right you dont have a donor Bronc for the 4 link build? What costs are we looking at? I may be interested on being a test rat...

Aaron

[Gravel Maker]

Full width would a be little different, not too much.....

Gravel Maker,

I'm going to run a D60 (78 f-250) but stock width and stock wheel base, would this be a good rig for your test fit, or would it be too different from a 9 inch? The stock 9 inch is under the rig now, and we could set everthing up with it, but I'd like it to end up with the D60 when it's all said and done. I've got my rear leafs in the parts pile, but at this point in my build, it would be easy to switch it up and go 4 link, not to mention easy to fab with the tub off. I don't have to take my rig out of commission to do this, I'm figuring it will be a few months till it's on the road, anyhow.

Let me know if you think this would work, it's the least I could do for the club

Galen

Full width axles would allow for greater triangulation over stock, and certainly encourage additional WB but it dosen't move either transfer output.....BTW, I do not entirely follow the whole 4link calculator bible.....way too many undiscoverable variables.......axle centers and trf output are very high on my list of importance, another is COG but that can only be assumed......

I guess what I am saying here is the kit could be nearly identical if nothing else changes, just with longer arms and different mounting bracketry.

The narrowness of the EB frame has me thinking, interesting front and rear upper links, verry tight in there up front......rear should be no problem.

And lastly I do intend to design several vehicles link setups and this may be only the first of several EB's, at this time I am working on an FJ40 with FJ60 axles fully linked (mine), and an FJC (2007) completely redoing the lightweight rear link setups and SAS the front......

[crawlin68]

I guess what I am saying here is the kit could be nearly identical if nothing else changes, just with longer arms and different mounting bracketry.

That is exactly what I was thinking when I originally volunteered for this!

[720Racer]

.....Full width axles would allow for greater triangulation over stock, and certainly encourage additional WB but it dosen't move either transfer output......

.....I'm going to run a D60 (78 f-250) but stock width and stock wheel base, would this be a good rig for your test fit, or would it be too different from a 9 inch? The stock 9 inch is under the rig now, and we could set everthing up with it, but I'd like it to end up with the D60 when it's all said and done.....

Gravel Maker,

Do you want to design the kit for a stock width/wheel base rig, and then figure how to make it for extended wheel base? Or are you going to develop two completely different kits? The only problem I see with my EB width D60 is the bracket(s) for the top link at the axle would be different from the 9 inch. I'll volunteer my rig as it sits (bone stock), or with the D60 under it for additional bracketry. I've got BC's 6 inch (5.5 inch "winch") coils for the front, but it's just a stock frame right now.

Galen

[PhantomEB]

Just get er done already!!!! Very eager to see this come about, then I plan to do mine up early-mid 2007 as I have a bet going on right now to whether people will see mine out wheelin by Dec 31st.

[Gravel Maker]

Easily solved with a truss.....

Gravel Maker,

Do you want to design the kit for a stock width/wheel base rig, and then figure how to make it for extended wheel base? Or are you going to develop two completely different kits? The only problem I see with my EB width D60 is the bracket(s) for the top link at the axle would be different from the 9 inch. I'll volunteer my rig as it sits (bone stock), or with the D60 under it for additional bracketry. I've got BC's 6 inch (5.5 inch "winch") coils for the front, but it's just a stock frame right now.

Galen

So you aren't concerned with the differences in the axle itself (Ford 9" & D60) for the upper bracketry, the lowers aren't that much different, they are both round .

[ACE]

If you could design for the stock wheel base D44 & ford 9 in and the D60's front and rear and combination of each D60 front 9 in rear at different wheel bases. (Kind of like mix and match) To me that would be the way to go, sense those are the popular axles under the Broncos and people could buy the parts to extend the wheel base later if wanted, just my .02

[720Racer]

.....If you could design for the stock wheel base D44 & ford 9 in and the D60's front and rear and combination of each D60 front 9 in rear at different wheel bases. (Kind of like mix and match).....

It'd be slick if the axle bracktery had cosistant locations for the arms, from one axle to another, so you could just buy new brackets for your "new" axle when you want to upgrade, and use the same arms/frame brackets.

If you want to extent the wheel base, you could buy longer arms, and use the same frame brackets/axle brackets/rod ends. The only thing to change would be the coil bucket/shock mounts (driveline/brakelines).

It'd be pretty modular, making it easy for guys to upgrade one piece at a time.

Galen

[Familyman]

Been doing more research and this EB is pretty nice only down fall is you will have to relocate or extend all the brake, gas, electric lines to get them over the top of the upper rear mount on the driver side . Like the upper mount too because it is minimally adjustable
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=434171

I also really like the way BTF mounts thier lower links in the front on a prefab bracket system that they mount to a piece of 1.75" tubing and then reinforce it with a combo skid plate. Plus it triangulates the lowers better and from the pirate EB write up sounded like he had to shorten the links in the end to triangulate it better. Plus this design works well since it could be place right at the pivot of the rear driveline.
http://www.bluetorchfab.com/gallery/grayghost/DSC01781

GM - your truss would work great for the rear upper links and 3 legged link for the mounts on the frame for the fronts of the upper links.
The rear links would mount off of the chassis link bracket off the bottom of the frame therefore giving you enough seperation between links and then tie them to the axle with the axle mounts of appropriate angle.
-another idea to bend a piece of 2" tubing connecting the frame(read cross member) near the end of the tranfer case output and then mount 2 of your 2' tube mount 17 degree brackets near the center for better triangulation. Or another idea is to make a cross member out of 2.5" square tube and mount something like these for ultimate adjustability - http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/...djustable1.JPG

I know too many ideas floating through my head

Looking forward to other thoughts FM

[Gravel Maker]

Sorry for the delay in responding to anyone.......

Today we completed a couple of Coil Spring variations.....Need to beat on them for a few days to test them......

I do agree with the modular approach, makes it much easier for many people.....

[crawlin68]

I thought this might be of interest to you guys.

Click Me

[silverhorse]

4 link

After looking at those posts I feel totally inadequate in my fabrication skills!! THANKS PATRICK!! LOL