Fordyce damage

[ACE]

My son and I were invited to go with some Jeep frends late Thursday night
for a 6 am Friday trip, all was good until I ripped my track bar bracket away
from the frame, but not all the way off and ripped some frame on the bottom. I limped it back to Cisco Grove Sunday and called my brother to trailer me back home. This was my first Fordyce trip and broke on winch hill 3
What a trail !! Harder than any I've been on, water crossings, rocks, it has it all. It got the best of me this time but I'll be back to beat it.
Sons Bronco did great and so did the jeeps(damn)
Saw 3 other Broncos, two were together a light green white flares, a dark green black flares and a real nice red one, lots of money in it, he was from Sac, did'nt catch were the other two were from.
Now to fix the bronco, any suggestions? Wild horses axle track bar riser bracket and stock frame mount, would that cause less leverage on the frame ? Any help on other ideas ?

[crawlin68]

That trail is on my "to do" as soon as I get my rig done. Sounds like a great trail. Sorry to hear about your trac bar mount though. Do you have a lowered trac bar mount? Sounds like you do. Those tend to put a lot of stress on the frame right there. (as you found out) Raising the lower mount is a much better design and puts a lot lees stress on the frame.

The WH raised bracket would be a good option or if you have the means to fab one yourself, do that. They aren't hard to make at all. I have the stock upper frame mount on mine and I fabbed up a lower mount to weld to the axle tube. I made mine out of some 3/8 plate. Here’s a pic.

[ACE]

I do have the drop bracket on mine and always though about the stress it puts on the frame. I like what you've done to yours and think I'm going to do the same, just makes since. I have welders and a plasma cutter and can fab a little, my sons a certified welder and can figure out anything.
What about the geometry for the track bar, do you get the angle of the one on now and copy that to the new axle mounted bracket?
Thanks for the picture, and let us know when your ready to do Fordyce, I've got a bone to pick with it!

[Delta 4 Wheel]

let's talk a little tech here....


You want the following.

1. The track bar and drag link to be as horizontal as possible.
2. The drag link and track bar as parallel as posible to avoid bump steer.
2. The AXLE end of the track bar mount to be as close to the axle as possible. The farther away from the axle you get the less effective the track bar is. Think of it as a longer lever moving your axle around.

When you build the new mounts for the track bar, keep in mind that there is a lot of stress on this unit. All of the vehicle weight, and all of the steering torque is applied here. So this is how you make it bullet proof. Cut the old frame mount completely off the frame and toss it. Get some 3/8 - 1/2 plate and plate the frame rail on the outer side as well as the bottom where the track bar mount will be. Get some 2x4" .250 box tubing about 8" long. This will be the new mount. Let's see if I can explain this without pics. YOu will want to cut a portion from the end of the tubing. The cut out will be 4"x3.5" After the cut is made it should fit up onto the frame rail with the 1/2" left from the cut on the outside of the frame rail, and the bottom portion of the cut running along the bottom of the frame rail. So now you have 4 inches of the tubing kntched and sitting up on the frame with 4" of 1/2" to weld to the outside of the frame and a 3.5 inch to weld across the bottom of the frame rail.

Then on the bottom of the tube, you will need to cut a path way for the track bar end to slide in to. then slide the track bar in, center your front end, and mark the hole location and drill for the track bar bolt. Your mounting hole should be about 1" from the bottom of the tubing and subsequently 3" from the bottom of the frame rail. THen, since you want a new bettom mount as well, build it like Patricks and WH. Build it to the height that makes your tack bar parallel with the drag link. It might be parallel just where you have it with the new frame mount. An adjustable track bar is real handy here. I have one that has a heim on the frame end for "beer" cheap if you are interested

I can take a pick of mine tomorrow and post it for you if you need a visual...

[Delta 4 Wheel]

That trail is on my "to do" as soon as I get my rig done. Sounds like a great trail. Sorry to hear about your trac bar mount though. Do you have a lowered trac bar mount? Sounds like you do. Those tend to put a lot of stress on the frame right there. (as you found out) Raising the lower mount is a much better design and puts a lot lees stress on the frame.

The WH raised bracket would be a good option or if you have the means to fab one yourself, do that. They aren't hard to make at all. I have the stock upper frame mount on mine and I fabbed up a lower mount to weld to the axle tube. I made mine out of some 3/8 plate. Here’s a pic.

I love your work Patrick, but you are going to have wicked bump steer here. I know that you know that, but I would build a drop bracket for the frame side if I were you. Your rig will be much more enjoyable to drive...

[crawlin68]

I love your work Patrick, but you are going to have wicked bump steer here. I know that you know that, but I would build a drop bracket for the frame side if I were you. Your rig will be much more enjoyable to drive...

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....I know.

I started fabbing a frame mount to lower the frame side about 1 inch, but then got side tracked and I never finished it. Partly because I wasn't sure about my design. I would love to see some pictures of yours for inspiration. Thanks!!!

[Delta 4 Wheel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....I know.

I started fabbing a frame mount to lower the frame side about 1 inch, but then got side tracked and I never finished it. Partly because I wasn't sure about my design. I would love to see some pictures of yours for inspiration. Thanks!!!

OK, I'll snap a pic. But remember, if you don't have a little bump steer you can't have the "floor it and change lanes" option. That's always been a fun one...

[Delta 4 Wheel]

I built this mount 2 times. I moved the track bar on top of the front axle for ease of bracketry there...so in front of the bracket, you can see where the old one was..this gives you an idea, just pay more attention to detail than I do!!

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....I know.

I started fabbing a frame mount to lower the frame side about 1 inch, but then got side tracked and I never finished it. Partly because I wasn't sure about my design. I would love to see some pictures of yours for inspiration. Thanks!!!

Don't look that bad to me. I say run it and find out. The parallel thing is just a rule of thumb. Your bars aren't going to run in the same arc no matter what since they aren't the same length and don't have the same relative mounting positions. I've had both a shorter trac bar and a shorter drag link. If the shorter bar is a bit steeper it has worked fine for me. If you don't like it then it's not going to be that much harder to fix later with the body on.
Keep up the good work!

[ACE]

I was looking at Wild Horses bracket and saw that they have three track bar mounting holes for adjustment, is that to get the bars close to the same angle? Thanks to all for your advice and pics, I'm better understanding how to correct and prevent this problem.

Delta
I'm interested in the adjustable track bar, I'm thinking of buying W.Hs.
bracket and will let you know when, and maybe get it from you the same trip to Stockton.

[crawlin68]

Don't look that bad to me. I say run it and find out. The parallel thing is just a rule of thumb. Your bars aren't going to run in the same arc no matter what since they aren't the same length and don't have the same relative mounting positions. I've had both a shorter trac bar and a shorter drag link. If the shorter bar is a bit steeper it has worked fine for me. If you don't like it then it's not going to be that much harder to fix later with the body on.
Keep up the good work!

That is my plan. I'm going to run it like it is and see how it acts. I emailed pics to Anthony at Stone Crusher a few months ago and he seemed to think it will be fine as is. I just want to have a back up plan in case I do need to drop the frame side a bit. Thanks for the input. I appreciate all of the help I get from all of you guys here.

[Delta 4 Wheel]

That is my plan. I'm going to run it like it is and see how it acts. I emailed pics to Anthony at Stone Crusher a few months ago and he seemed to think it will be fine as is. I just want to have a back up plan in case I do need to drop the frame side a bit. Thanks for the input. I appreciate all of the help I get from all of you guys here.

I have built a few rigs, and I can say that you will have a bump steer when you are under normal driving. I am most worried when you hammer it to pass or whatever and the front end comes way up then way down. This is when you will be pissed that you didn't take care of it. "Being Fine" and having it drive like stock are 2 totally different situations. I have messed around with many different combos, and I enjoy driving the correct geometry so much more. I like cruising down the highway (or did) and not feeling ANY bump steer. But again, this is just my humble opinion...

[crawlin68]

I have built a few rigs, and I can say that you will have a bump steer when you are under normal driving. I am most worried when you hammer it to pass or whatever and the front end comes way up then way down. This is when you will be pissed that you didn't take care of it. "Being Fine" and having it drive like stock are 2 totally different situations. I have messed around with many different combos, and I enjoy driving the correct geometry so much more. I like cruising down the highway (or did) and not feeling ANY bump steer. But again, this is just my humble opinion...

I definitely DO NOT want any bump steer at all. I want it to drive very nice. I have gotten varied opinions on this when people see the pics of mine. Some people who have the exact same set up say they have zero bump steer, others say that I will definitely have bump steer. I guess everyone’s rig is different?? And I am by no means an expert, so I thought I would drive it like it is (fully expecting to feel some bump steer) first and then modify accordingly. Thanks for the pics of your drop bracket. That gives me a good idea on how to do mine.

Remember too that when I took that pic, there was no body, bumper, winch, cage, seats, dash, etc... on there yet so it will settle down a few inches with all of that weight on the frame. I don't know how this will efect the geometry though??

[Delta 4 Wheel]

The weight wont change the geometry a bit. The pitman arm and the frame mount move together...

You will have bump steer as the axle will move differently side-to-side (trac bar) as apposed to the pitman arm (drag link) ..this difference will go the path of least resistance...which is not th body, not tha axle and is most certainly the steering wheel. When you get your steering wheel on, have a couple of buddies bounce up and down on the front bumper and then watch the steering wheel. If it moves right to left at all, this is your bump steer...

[crawlin68]

The weight wont change the geometry a bit. The pitman arm and the frame mount move together...

You will have bump steer as the axle will move differently side-to-side (trac bar) as apposed to the pitman arm (drag link) ..this difference will go the path of least resistance...which is not th body, not tha axle and is most certainly the steering wheel. When you get your steering wheel on, have a couple of buddies bounce up and down on the front bumper and then watch the steering wheel. If it moves right to left at all, this is your bump steer...

Yeah that was going to be my first test. Hopefully I'll have the dash in this weekend so I can mount the steering column. Thanks for the help!