Hydroboost

[CityHick]

Hey guys.
I've been contemplating replacing my vacuum boosted brake system with hydroboost for many years - my main reason for not doing so before is quite simply, not wanting to replace what (sort of) works. I am now at the point of being annoyed with sub-standard braking. My primary concerns are safety, reliability, and serviceability. Clean appearance is also a consideration, but far behind the other concerns. My engine bay is far from show quality...

I've been trying to compile information about the various options and I'm sort of getting lost in all the links. I do not want to reinvent the wheel, and I also do not have all the time in the world to scour junkyards and cobble together parts from here and there.

My bronco has front disc (the "chevy" disc conversion) and the larger 11x1.75" rear drums. Engine is a 351w with Ford Lightning/Explorer EFI. While I don't necessarily want to spend a fortune, I am willing to pay for convenience. This being said, I see Doug and others on classic using the ebay angle bracket to mount their hydroboost systems, while Wild Horses sells what looks to be a very simple machined aluminum firewall bracket upon which to connect the hydroboost unit and the master cylinder to, and it mounts the brake hardware more or less straight off the firewall.

First question - what's the reason to choose the ebay angle bracket over the WH solution?
Second - it appears that the ebay angle bracket places the master cylinder farther over the driver's side inner fender than the vacuum kits do. Is that true?

I have a Saginaw "canned ham" pump that's been improved by AGR Performance; it is said to provide higher flow and pressure. I know that it is better than stock because I could tell the difference in steering performance the first time I hit the rocks with the new pump. I am going to assume that it'll do the job for brakes in addition to steering. It currently only has a single-return on the reservoir - with some searching I could probably find a dual return reservoir.

This brings me to my third question - is a dual return reservoir worth sourcing or will a single-return reservoir do the job, if I "t" the returns before dumping back into the pump reservoir?
And finally my fourth question - is there any benefit to the DIY approach vs the kits, aside from price? Meaning - are folks having problems with the kits and/or finding that the kits do not satisfy some need, whether functional or aesthetic?

...

Getting a little off topic - I have one (used) Explorer front dress set and I believe I have access to a (new) Explorer front dress as well. I bought the Wild Horses adapter kit to allow me to run the Saginaw pump within the Explorer brackets. I figure if I am tearing everything apart I might as well swap to the Explorer accessories at that time as well. I have no real functional reason to do this swap other than that I have the parts. One thing I like about it is I'd be getting away from the 3g alternator design which hasn't been the most reliable for me. Whether or not the Explorer alternator solves this, I don't know. But I also like that the Explorer front accessories give more clearance to the radiator. My current setup has just so little room, and I'm basically forced to run an electric fan. The electric fan has been fine but my brain tells me that a mechanical fan would be more reliable (one less aftermarket "thing" to fail while on the road or on the trail).

So... I may put all of this together as my "winter" project. Any input to my questions above is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[904Bronco]

I will come back to this, if needed, when I am not trying to get out the door on time...

Basically, I have had good success with the Astro Van HB unit and master cylinder. Generally, I can find the parts locally, within a day if something takes a dump.
Not necessarily the same when buying a kit. People that have bought the kit will probably tell you that it works fine...

The eBay bracket sold by Catfan on Classic makes it a bolt on without having to make a modification to the HB unit. The Astro Van master bolts on and doesn't leak like the recommended 79 Camaro master did. The bore is larger than needed, so you will have a firm pedal. If you already have the factory angle bracket, then he used to just sell the pivot section that you can swap out... The shaft is adjustable so you have some pedal height adjustment.

A dual return Res is a cleaner look, I have done the "T" and it will work. HB unit needs Pressure, but doesn't use a lot of volume. Plan on some sort of fluid cooler no matter which way you go.

Placement - Maybe a little closer to the fender, but still clears the hood and fender. I had to shim Betty's unit up some, but first time I had to do that. (No Bronco is the same as the others.)

1995 Cardone Rebuilt Astro van HB unit #52-7333, Raybestos #MC39961 new master cyl $244.13 From Rock Auto, there is a core charge you have to eat if you don't have one to send back.
Make some pressure hydraulic lines and two metric to -8an adapters, I have Summit numbers somewhere... Manual proportioning valve is what I use and you will have to bend up some brake lines.

I find the Explorer pump to be fine, but I haven't run anything over 33" tires.

[CityHick]

Thanks Doug. Looking at your photos, I think I'd have to relocate some stuff on my inner fender in order to make the angle bracket setup work. Maybe it is an optical illusion but it looks different than how my vacuum setup is currently oriented. I do already have a cooler, have for years. I will probably relocate it as a part of this effort, though that's off topic and a gateway to yet another unrelated change that I have in mind.

The Wild Horses kit seems to get rid of the fender clearance/space concern and perhaps it even opens up some space there. That's not my only consideration, but it is one of them. I think the WH kit is using OEM parts, but from what? I don't really know. They do say everything is new, not rebuilt. Not that "new" really means "good" all the time anymore...

I am still searching around for more photos and ideas online but your input here is appreciated.

[CityHick]

Update - The Wild Horses hydroboost unit is an OEM-spec Bosch booster but the gentleman on the phone could not tell me what it came from. The Wild Horses kit looks a ton like the Hydratech kits from other vendors. I am nearly convinced that it is that exact hydratech unit. It's not cheap, and while I do not know what a replacement booster would be if I were to go to the parts store, it is at least something likely to be found and not some unique, aftermarket specific unit. I trust WH with that comment, I am a little unsettled about not knowing the replacement part application. But hopefully I'd never have to actually know that. The same is true of the master cylinder - application unknown.
I am now stuck at a crossroads. Do I adapt to my angle bracket that I don't actually like, or do I roll the dice on a few unknowns and get the WH kit...

[71BRONCO71]

BRONCO69 has the WH setup. I will text him and he can add his input.

It's a nice kit.

[BRONCO69]

I have the WH kit, and overall I've been very happy with it. I'm running the standard Ford calipers up front with the GM Eldorado disc calipers in the rear, on 37's. I have a PSC PS pump with remote reservoir, and I have PS cooler mounted below the radiator behind the front bumper.

Originally I ran a vacuum booster arrangement, and for around town normal driving it was fine, but braking performance seemed to hit a wall under hard braking. Offroad, there were times I wanted more brakes. I bit the bullet and purchased the WH kit with Wilwood master.

Installation was pretty straight forward. Per the instructions I needed to modify the firewall, which wasn't a big deal. The return line from the hydroboost runs into a dedicated port on my remote reservoir, so I can't say much about using a "T" in your return line. Fluid only flows from this line when you release the brake pedal, so I can't imagine a T would affect performance much. Someone else may be able to chime in more on that.

The only thing I changed later was the routing of the lines to the hydroboost unit. When I first installed, I routed them low near the frame rail, and came up at the firewall, figuring this would be a cleaner install. At the end of the day, I decided I didn't like the lines that close to the exhaust manifold, and the extra length added head loss to the system. Later on I made new lines and routed them up high (as shown on the WH website), and noticed slightly better steering performance with the shorter lines.

Braking performance is night and day compared to the vacuum booster. Pedal fell is good, and it stops on a dime now. 1st time I stomped on the brakes in an empty parking lot I was able to lock up all four tires, scaring the crap out of myself in the process.

I've been very happy with it. It wasn't cheap, but everything was new, and it works well.

[CityHick]

Thanks man! I like the appearance much better, and I love the more open fender area. I don't really know what my holdup is. Maybe I'll click the button and get it heading my way.

I like Doug's method for the price though...

[BRONCO69]

No problem. The price was a little difficult to swallow, but at the end of the day for me it had everything I needed to make it work, and it works great. I have zero regrets making the switch.

[M_luther]

Like Doug I went with the 94-95 Astro Van booster ($40 from the local salvage yard) and new master cylinder. I reused my Duff angle bracket and purchased new linkage off eBay for $50. I am running the stock reservoir with single return and a tee with my used explorer pump. Haven’t had any issues. I’m into the entire upgrade including the hoses for about $300. 33” tires, Chevy disc front, stock large drum rear, non adjustable disc/drum proportioning valve. Works great.

[pippinmader]

I have heard that all HBs are very similar (or the same?). That may or not be true. To me it is hard to pay for a complete kit when you can find the adaptors to make used parts work, but that is just me. I did go with a Superduty HB - mostly because the master cylinder says "ford" on the side

With a 351 you have to do something to make space because the block deck is taller, that means an angle bracket or a mount that raises/rotates the whole system (like the WH one, which I think is made by Hydratech).

T-return vs dedicated return: As has been mentioned, the HB sends a pulse of fluid back to the reservoir when the brake pedal is pushed, I have heard that if you use a T and are turning while braking (on the street or maybe in the rocks?) you can get a little feedback in the steering system, but I don't know if this is true.

[CityHick]

I went against my usual tightwad sensibilities and ordered the WH "MOAB" kit. As said I'm not really in the mood to order stuff from multiple vendors and adapt things together. I am paying probably way too much for the perception of convenience. Hopefully this momentary lapse of judgement results in good outcomes.

I kept looking at the angle bracket setup and while it's probably not drastically different from the way that my vacuum booster currently sits, getting away from that master cylinder over the fender is going to allow for a few other little changes I've got in mind.

Doug's and M-Luther's setups both look very clean and tidy, but neither has the amount of junk I have, competing for that space.

I'll update my build thread with details of how this all goes together, improvements in stopping performance, and I'll elaborate on my other ideas.

Thanks all.

[70 Steed]

I went the same direction as you Tony, for the same reasons. I bought the WH kit years ago. It is the predecessor to the one they currently sell. One of the best upgrades I’ve done. I’m running 35’s, Chevy front disc conversion, large rear drums and Wiilwood adjustable proportioning valve.

[CityHick]

That's good to hear. My unit should be here today and I might work on installing it this weekend. Seems easy enough, but I know how these things can snowball!

[CityHick]

I've been moving through the installation at a snail's pace for many reasons. Midweek I don't give myself very much time for bronco projects. Last weekend I did the initial installation and rough plumbing, and decided that I wanted to plumb the return a little more cleanly than with the provided brass tee from the kit, so I waited for parts. Did not really look at it for most of the week other than minor stuff.

This weekend I finished all the plumbing, bench bled the master cylinder and then reconnected all of my brake lines with a fair amount of grumbling and frustrations (self imposed). I then bled the brake system and moved on to topping off the power steering fluid and going through the process to bleed the hydro boost system. At the advice of many I bought some Swepco power steering fluid and started to bleed the system per the provided instructions from Wild Horses. I cannot seem to get all the air out of the system, and after fighting with it for a while today I moved on to other tasks.

I can see air bubbles in the pump reservoir and I am fairly convinced that I just need to keep after it until they are gone.

I did take a ride up and down the street and the braking performance is not good. I can floor the brakes and come to a very slow stop. So... I am going to make sure that the brake lines really are bled, and I will continue to work on bleeding the power steering lines as well. I did not think it would be quite so time consuming but then again I've not done this before nor have I put all that much time into this.

All of this being said, the kit from Wild Horses is very nice. They supply everything that you could possibly need, unless of course you're crazy like me and want to improve on a couple of small details.

I will get there, I just need to spend the time and finish. I will update my build thread when I complete this project, to include any/all lessons learned.

[70 Steed]

I use a reverse brake bleeder. You pump the fluid in at the wheel cylinder/caliper. It works great.