Leaf spring issue - check your rigs!

[CityHick]

Let me start by saying this is NOT a vendor bash but an issue that I feel is important to let my fellow Bronco owners know about.

I have been running the "new design" WH leaf springs for 3 or 4 years now as has a friend of mine. Today we noticed on his rig that the "double wrap" on the front of the leaf springs contacts the spring hanger and causes some wear to happen as the spring cycles. Over time I feel this will wear the spring hanger bracket too thin and under the right circumstance will cause the hanger bracket to crack.

See my attached pictures for reference and check your rigs. Mine looks just like my buddy's rig - both show wear on both the spring and the bracket. Problem is consistent on both sides.

I am going to have to figure out how to clearance this and reinforce the bracket sometime AFTER the Rubicon trip... hopefully they don't decide to fail on me this week!

Anyway... check your rigs. I spoke to WH about this and they are aware. I don't know what final resolution or recommendations from them will be, if anything. But we the end users will find a way around this, I am sure!

The joys of aftermarket parts on 40+ year old vehicles...

[DirtDonk]

Re: Leaf spring issue - check your rigs!

Hard to tell completely from the pics of course, but yours does not look like it's anywhere near the failure point at this time.
Free space is definitely tight in there on EB's, and it's tight enough that a couple of people have reported that they couldn't even mount their springs at first. Others had the hitting issue, while others did not. Hit or miss unfortunately. Typical Bronco-crap though.

While I would not think it's putting you in danger yet, it's good you brought it up and can actually see some wear and tear. First time I've seen an actual wear point on one, but I'm sure they're out there. And you said it's basically the same level as on your buddy's rig?

The "fix" I would think would be one of two methods. Either weld some metal on top of the hanger to reinforce it and just make it thicker, or fill and re-drill the bolt holes a quarter inch lower in the hanger face. This last method is what was suggested to the other customers I talked to who could not even mount their springs in the first place.
I never really thought of wearing out the underside of the socket, but lowering the spring would be a fix for that as well.
Either fill-n-drill or maybe even some of those weld washers that some of us have used to fix the original holes in the hangers when the factory spring bushing sleeves wore through the sides.

Another, less desirable method, would be to simply cut the loop of the outer spring off at a point somewhere before it comes in close proximity to the hanger, but allowing still for some cuppage of the main eye. Not as secure as a full loop maybe, but still retains some of the safety of a wrapped eye.

Paul

[bent70]

Re: Leaf spring issue - check your rigs!

I wouldn't worry about it, there is plenty of material there and it won't wear much more into the hanger unless the spring is unwrapping. If its an issue you can't stand I would 4 link it....

[Spaceburger]

Re: Leaf spring issue - check your rigs!

I checked mine and no wear, no contact but I've yet to check my sons EB. Both are running the WH 3.5 11 pack leafs. Tony, is yours 3.5, 4.5, or 5.5?
As for the issue of an aftermarket spring causing metal grinding of the vehicle spring mount..I would expect the vendor to take this issue rather seriously. Ya maybe you don't see lots of metal removed but wouldn't a visual inspection be warranted? Maybe there is wear in an area that could propagate a crack and possibly separate the hanger from the vehicle. Maybe trace the lot number of both sets of leafs sold and contact other buyers of those leafs for an inspection. What is the root cause? Installation or bad leaf? Would you venture to suggest fixes without looking at what's going on first?
Don't mean to make an issue here but if this were an airplane, believe me...people would be asking questions.

[CityHick]

Re: Leaf spring issue - check your rigs!

I run 5.5" leafs - they are the new style with the three clips around the front of the spring pack. I received these shortly before they made it into the catalog when I was having spring wrap issues with the first set of leafs that I bought.

The issue appears to be that the second "wrap" needs to be bent down more. If it was a little tighter to the spring eye it would not be rubbing on the spring hanger.

I can only hope that this issue affects a small production run and that this is not happening to more rigs. I know of three affected by this problem right now.

This is the kind of issue that would trigger a recall of a modern vehicle line. I doubt that these springs were produced in an ISO type factory where a certain production run could be isolated, but who knows.

I am going to drop the front of the leaf springs out of their mounts, radius the edges of the second wrap with a grinder, repaint the radiused area and reinstall. I will examine the spring hangers more closely with the springs removed and at a minimum, smooth out the sharp edges where the springs have been cutting into the mounts.

At the present time I would agree that this is not likely going to cause imminent failure as the wear is pretty minimal but over time I could see it getting worse. This is the kind of issue that reinforces my general distaste for non-OEM style parts, and a reminder that we're pushing our rigs harder than Ford ever envisioned (articulation in the manner that we push our rigs through is way beyond anything the vehicles were designed for).

I don't love leaf springs in general and trust me the 4-link idea has crossed my mind more than once - but that I not going to happen. I am disappointed that these springs are damaging my vehicle but I'm glad we noticed this before it got worse. In almost any other context this kind of issue would be raising serious eyebrows.

Anyway.. just keep an eye on your rigs - that was the main purpose of this post. I'll update again after I address this issue and investigate it more.

[ntsqd]

Re: Leaf spring issue - check your rigs!

I would remove the second leaf and narrow it on both sides in that region, and then reassemble and re-install.

I see this as a production fix as well. The vendor could simply narrow the tip of the second leaf in the region where it wraps around the spring eye. I've seen exactly this done on production leaves. Including the K5 Pre-Runner springs that I bought for the front of my Suburbans. Rancho did this to the second leaves and there wasn't a clearance problem in the first place.

[CityHick]

Re: Leaf spring issue - check your rigs!

Some more detailed photos to update this older thread. Dropped the springs today, sent these pictures to Wild Horses for evaluation as well. Undecided how to remedy this but clearly the springs are touching where they should not be, and causing damage. They have removed less than 1/16" of material at this point but at what point will they stop? Who knows. I don't like this at all.

Ideas in mind so far... flap disk on the grinder to smooth out and clearance the hanger a little more, have double wrap re-shaped somehow, modify hangers so that the springs hang 1/2" lower... none seem like that great of an idea.

[CityHick]

Re: Leaf spring issue - check your rigs!

I think I have found my solution. Lots of info on this over on Classic, pretty common issue.

I think I am going to "lower" my spring mount holes 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch and reinforce the holes with these: http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/FIXIT.html

Then I will smooth out the damage, possibly add a little more material to the hangers and hope for the best.

This is a dumb problem to have, but that is the joy of owning a Bronco anymore it seems. My rig and my buddy's rig are both affected by this, and judging from what I have found over on Classic we are far from alone. I understand the reason for a military wrap but when it is damaging the vehicle, new designs should be considered. If nothing else this is a potential safety issue.

[DirtDonk]

Re: Leaf spring issue - check your rigs!

Here's what I started writing this morning, before I was so rudely called away to help work on an uber-bitchin '65 Mustang GT with 427 stroker and Webers... Darn it!

"Well, I'll add my 3 cents in again.
I'm not sure why you don't think lowering the holes is that great of an idea? Sounds pretty straightforward and "relatively" simple to me. And very effective theoretically.
I can see where you don't think you should have to go to extra work for what should be a plug-n-play part of course. But as far as simple and effective go, changing the holes would be my choice.


None of the other options sound like they're as worthy as that.
1. Taking more material off of a hanger that you're worried about wearing through doesn't sound like a good idea. And I'm sure it wouldn't help you sleep at night!
2a. Not sure how much work it would be to re-profile the leaf, but it doesn't sound easy to me. Never tried it of course, but off-hand it sounds like the most work. Maybe with the right fixtures and tools?
2b. Grinding the wrap to a narrower point and perhaps even thinning it out a little is certainly a possibility. Seems like more work too, but some people have very good luck with grinding wheels and metal. Should be able to do it without overheating the metal too, if you're careful.
3. Lowering the hole should be as easy as re-drilling and either filling-n-drilling, or adding weld-washers to create your new pivot point wherever you want it. Can be done simply on both sides.


Other options:

4a. Did you remove and narrow the leaf wraps like you mentioned before? Sounds like not, or you'd be reporting on the success or failure of that option. I have seen some trucks (Toyotas?) that have the wrap leaf tapered severely to the middle at the shackle. Not sure if they're available like that for EB's or not, or if that's enough to clear yours, but it's a thought.
4b. A spring style without the double-wrap would work of course, and maybe you don't need the added safety that it offers if you've never broken a main leaf. Not as desirable I wouldn't think, but might be a viable solution.
4c. Having a custom leaf made with only half a wrap so it doesn't extend into the pocket.
4d. Another one of ours that can be found to have more clearance in that area. If such exists.
4e. Remove the second leaf with the outer wrap completely. Same negatives as 4b and might lose some height. Never taken one off though, so don't know the results.
Those are just ideas for spring modifications. I still prefer lowering the hole.

And to that end (regarding 4d), I suppose you could measure precisely how much offset the outer leaf has over the inner one and I can go out and compare all the others on a pallet. Happy to do it if they'll let me, but I'm guessing they're all going to be pretty close to the same as what you have already. Or at least close enough so as to not be of any help in this case.
Undoubtedly some slight variations among them, but doubtful it's enough.


Personally, I think your best option is still modifying the holes to handle the springs, rather than vice versa, or taking the time it might take to go through all the other brands to see if one will fit. Or even to have some custom made. More clearance would benefit all of the above.

My choices then:

A. To lower your holes and be done with it now and in the future, should you ever need to change springs again.
B. No actual Plan-B at this point"


From the pics the bolt holes actually look pretty good, but how tight to do the bolts fit? If they're loose at all, then they would definitely benefit from a weld-washer. Mine were worse than yours on the inside, from the bushings sleeve wearing through. I don't see that telltale wear on yours, but if they were worn clear through, it'd be good to still check the bolt fitment (if you haven't already). The answer to that question might tilt the balance in favor of new, lower holes.

Good luck.

Paul

[CityHick]

Re: Leaf spring issue - check your rigs!

Thanks Paul.
I am not a fan of any option involving modifying the spring at all. The spring was not designed for the hanger in stock form. Perhaps we can chalk that up to manufacturing variances 44 years ago at the Ford plant, perhaps its manufacturing variances at the spring manufacturer.

As it sits now, it just barely clears when sitting there static, and as the suspension cycles and the double wrap moves around, it is touching, a lot.

When I mentioned smoothing out the damaged areas, I am not talking about removing very much material. Basically just smoothing out sharp edges so as to (hopefully) minimize the risk of the mount cracking, starting at the damaged area. Sharp edges where it is supposed to be smooth seems like a crack propagation spot. Maybe I am just being paranoid.

I ordered those weld in washers and will be lowering the mount points. The reason that I do not like that idea is I don't like wallowing out holes and then filling with weld. It is sloppy and I like my weld joints to be tight. It is however, the least objectionable alternative.

I did consider narrowing the double wrap until I actually dropped the spring and can clearly see that the whole width of the wrap is touching. Narrowing it would just narrow the contact patch.

I threw out re-shaping the wrap portion of the leaf as the "real" fix but that is pretty unrealistic. A friend of mine did that on the main leaf wrap using a big hydraulic press, because the bushings were not a "press fit"... ie the bushings fit sloppy in the main leaf. Mine were better than that so I did not have to do that.

I just feel this leaf spring design is a little less than ideal. Workable yes, but extra work put on the consumer for a part that should "just fit". These are my second set of WH leafs - Jim gave me these when my first set had bigger problems in a very short amount of time. I am still very grateful that he did that for me.

I am not upset, just frustrated. I will take your very detailed response as the official WH recommendation. I haven't yet received a reply to my email but I know you guys are busy and I am not in a big hurry to get the rig going again. Any additional feedback from Jim would be appreciated but your input is also helpful.

In my line of work, at a minimum we at least update product documentation with possible "gotchas" as an interim effort while evaluating product design for improvements, but human safety is not a factor there. This problem, un-addressed can lead to safety issues. I would hate to break a spring mount because of this.

I plan to attack this harder this weekend. Thanks again.
-Tony

[DirtDonk]

Re: Leaf spring issue - check your rigs!

Now that I look again, I can see the wear marks all the way across. Making the taper idea a non-starter. Would have to cut off the end and turn the "wrap" into a "support" so to speak. Oh well.

There's a big chance the guys at the shop won't hear anything of note from Jim for the duration of the SEMA show unfortunately. He might get his messages, but more likely be spending time rubbing his tired feet and pre-calculating how quickly he can pack for Bronco Daze again once he does get back.

I'm not really sure he'd have any other suggestions that haven't been discussed since you posted this either, but then again, he does usually have good insight into parts-n-things, so you never know.
I still wouldn't mind comparing some measurements sometime. If you care to take some of your leaves, I can browse a few in the back to see what differences, if any, exist.

We do try to update the info on the website or instructions (when they exist) with gotchas to look out for, but some (such as the NV3550 stud-to-crossmember alignment issue) get mulled around more than others, trying to find out just where the issue lies and with more data gathered, before making the changes.
Even as simple as some of those changes are.

I've actually thought we should carry weld washers for two reasons. One is to fix the old worn out holes where the leaf spring bolts go (a common problem), and the other is to help with a "fix" for the problem you're experiencing.

Is your friend that's experiencing the interference going to do the same thing?

Paul

[CityHick]

Re: Leaf spring issue - check your rigs!

Paul if you want some measurements, let me know what you need. I am hoping to have my Bronco back together this weekend as I now have all needed axle parts, etc. Just a matter of making the time. So if you know what you need this week I'm happy to supply what I have.

I am not overly concerned about a response from Jim or anybody else at WH at this time.

My friend who has the same problem as me will probably sell his Bronco before he gets around to addressing this issue. He is far more tired of issues like this than I am (and I get pretty tired of this stuff).

[Broncrick]

Re: Leaf spring issue - check your rigs!

I have checked both e trail Bronco, and the Lubr, neither of mine has shown this issue. Like any vehicle with after market parts, there can variance in fit. Add 40+ yrs heck I expect issues!

[DirtDonk]

Re: Leaf spring issue - check your rigs!

Paul if you want some measurements, let me know what you need...

I think just a quick measurement from the top of the bushing sleeve to the top surface of the outer leaf eye, where it's actually contacting the hanger.

Taking the measurements from the top of the sleeve, rather than the "center" just makes it easier to get a quick gauge of what's the actual working distance from the bolt to the top of the spring.
A caliper is likely what I'll be using, vs a tape measure. But either should work.

And since the spring will be out, same as the ones I'll be comparing to, let me know if the this is taken with the second leaf hard up against the bottom of the first leaf, or if there is a gap between the two. With no load on them, they might have relaxed a bit.
To that extent then, I suppose an overall measurement from the bottom of the second leaf to the top of the double-wrap eye would be helpful.
So two measurements if you don't mind.

Thanks

Paul