Headlights - bang for the buck

[CityHick]

Driving my Bronco around at night lately, my headlight low beams are pretty dim. High beams are adequately bright but the lows just suck.

I have already wired my headlights through relays and both the high and low beam inputs register full battery voltage so the problem is clearly with the OEM style, unknown brand sealed beam headlights. They are the same bulbs I've always run, they have always been dim on the low beam side (though brighter since adding relays years ago) and they are finally annoying me enough to change them out.

My questions are as follows:
1. Does anybody know of a good, sealed beam style headlight that is nice and bright, that I could just get off the shelf at a standard auto parts store at a reasonable price?
2. Are the H4 headlights sold by WH and others really worth the $100 price tag?
3. Other options I'm forgetting? Open to any reasonable, street legal suggestions you may have!

[polecat]

Re: Headlights - bang for the buck

My personal choice, and I've tried literally dozens over the years, is Stanley motorcycle H4 lamps. Technically they're not street legal on a "car", but they say "DOT" on the lens, and the CA vehicle code only says that headlamps must be of a "DOT approved type".

What happens with most "car" lamps when mounted higher above the ground is that there isn't enough spread between low and high beams. Think about it - a small angle close to the ground makes a big difference, but three or four feet high and it's not enough. Motorcycle lamps are designed to be mounted higher, and give a better spread between high and low. Another thing I like about them is that the pattern rises up a bit on both sides, presumably because a bike leans in turns. That keeps the light out of oncoming drivers' eyes, but lights up the sides better than "car" lights. Very nice off road. H4 lamps in general are optically better designed - instead of a fuzzy blob of light from a sealed beam they provide a square patch on the road, with little or no light above the centerline.

The Stanley lamps take a standard H4 bulb, which means you can go with higher wattage if you like, or keep them stock. I'm happy with the stock bulbs, 55/60 watt. Different color temp bulbs are also available, but I've never messed with any of those.

Here's an example on ebay. This one says "motorcycle" on the lens, but mine don't. Part number on mine is 001-1970. I got mine from a bike shop in Hayward about 20 years ago.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/H4-STANLEY-1...=mtr#ht_17wt_0

Here's another one with no "motorcycle" on the lens:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-KZ1...82d5d4&vxp=mtr

JL

[Lars]

Re: Headlights - bang for the buck

Best cost no object lamps are Cibie H4s. The low beam and high beam patterns are second to none. That said, I've got Hellas in my Bronco. The low beam patterns cut off a little too low, but they were a bargain when I got them, and the high beam pattern is fine. I use 55 watt low/100 watt high bulbs (illegal as hell but driving around the rural Sac Valley at night they aren't optional). Too much current for the stock headlight and dimmer switch. Regardless of how you solve your lighting problem, one of the first things you should do is to convert the headlight circuit to use relays. That will give you the full voltage that your electrical system is capable of to the bulbs. Some good reading on that topic here:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...ys/relays.html

And yeah, H4 lamp assemblies are worth it. If you were closer I'd let you drive mine at night. Think "bores holes in the dark".

[Lars]

Re: Headlights - bang for the buck

Here: http://www.rallylights.com/h6024-7-r...dlamp-kit.html

[CityHick]

Re: Headlights - bang for the buck

Thanks for the responses, guys. Given me options to consider anyway.

Lars - I do run my headlights through relays... it helped but my low beams are still nowhere near bright enough.

I think that part of this latest round of Bronco improvements stems completely from driving a new car for the past 9 months or so. Spoiled I guess... improving what I can on the Bronco little by each as budget allows to narrow the gap between the two!

[DirtDonk]

Re: Headlights - bang for the buck

I'm still kind of pissed that none of my newer cars have lights as good as my Bronco does!
With all the learning having gone on in the last 70 years or so, you'd think that the lighting gurus could overcome any limitations set by the stylists and bean counters. But alas...

I use the Hella non-DOT version with the same 55/100 bulbs that Lars mentioned. I'm a big fan of staying legal wattage at least on low beam. Especially in a truck. Too many times I get blinded by others that are obviously running either poor lights, or some with too much bulb. Since you can't drive with the highs on in traffic anyway, I don't see an issue with a big watt high beam that lights up the next valley.

One unfortunate thing these days I think is, with the H4's you get pretty good consistency with the bulbs themselves, but a huge range of quality in the lamps (lens & reflector assemblies) from excellent to piss poor.
Usually, you get what you pay for, but not always. There are some outstanding deals out there on good lights, but most of those that are low priced are just crap.
Makes it hard to decide, but worth listening to what others have experienced.

Good luck. Don't grab the first pretty face with a good price that comes along.
I've got my Hella Euro-spec H4's out if you want to try them sometime. And though I can't offer you someone else's lights for testing, I happen to know of a set of Cibie's that are just laying around waiting for the EB to be finished. Eh Stuart? (you know you want to see how they look in someone else's rig I'm sure!)

I wish we had a working display for your H4's at WH like we do now for the LED's, but that's not likely to happen anytime soon.
But if you want to really be shocked sometime, stop by the shop during work hours (even in the height of daylight) and ask to check out the JW Speaker lights in "Gramps" in the back warehouse. Geeeeezzzzz Leweeeezzzzz.
Almost enough to make you want to spend $800 bucks on headlights!

Hmm, maybe we can do a quick rig-up of some in the back sometime. The IPF brand we offer has a good reputation at a fairly reasonable price of $35 each. The bulbs are pricey, but you can opt for standard H4's for a lesser amount and come away with a good deal.

Not strictly trying to steer you to our stuff. You know we're there and have some offerings. Just trying to point out some of the possibilities.
There was a cheap Chinese knockoff but pretty decent Cibié clone online awhile back, but I don't remember who was offering them. A third of the price, but with the same lens fluting for a virtually identical beam pattern. Jury's still out on their longevity, but the light pattern was reported to be very good.

Oh, and you asked about finding something at the FLAPS. Although not universally liked, I bet the GE/Sylvania fancy sealed-beam replacements are pretty darn decent and likely better than you have now. Silverstars, Superstars, Ultrastars or whatever-stars are what they call them. More expensive than a cheap H4 replacement, but not as expensive as the nicer ones.
Decent beam patterns, but not the best.

Many auto parts stores can get Hella and a couple of other mainstream brands as well. One other thing I really like about Hella products. Even though it's still a German/Austrian/somewhere in that region company, most of their products are actually
made right here in the USofA. They've got a couple of huge manufacturing plants in places like Georgia and I think even CA. But that one could be just distribution, the way things go.

And might as well add one more thing while I'm on a roll. I say go with the H4's instead of ANY sealed beam light. The reason is relatively big bang-for-the-buck replacements when a bulb goes bad, a large variety of choices, AND last but not least, reliability.
If you break a lens on a sealed-beam, the light is toast instantly. If you smash a lens on an H4 light, you may lose some pattern, but the light still works.
A big deal in my book, when you're in the middle of nowhere.

Paul

[CityHick]

Re: Headlights - bang for the buck

OK you guys are convincing me towards the H4 option. I like the idea of a "legal" low beam and super bright highs. I don't necessarily need to see what the lights are like or try before I buy, but was looking for opinions and part numbers/brands that are known good quality. Figured this would be a useful thread to start anyway... future reference for folks if nothing else.

Thanks again!

[DirtDonk]

Re: Headlights - bang for the buck

Couple of brands make the optional 55/100 H4/HB2/9003 bulbs, but the only one I can think of off-hand is Hella. That particular version doesn't come with any of their lamps, but can be purchased separately very inexpensively. Used to be less than $15 each, but I'm sure that's gone up over the years.
Usually worth the extra few bucks if they give you the option of "Xenon" vs their "regular halogen" models. They're just a bit whiter with a higher pressure and slightly more xenon in the gas mix. Just avoid any with more than a minimum of a blue tint on the glass, such as even Hella's "Optilux" versions. Up to you, but they're just "too blue" in my opinion.
Luckily an H4 is an H4 (usually) so one brand light bulb will fit in another brand's lamp assembly.

In my actual testing on both our 7" round, and large rectangular versions (like on '78/'79 Fords for instance) here are some brands I tested and whether they were a hit or a miss.

1. Hella: (two types)
1a Hella "Euro" - Big Hit
1b Hella "DOT" - Divided reports, but seem to be just "OK"
2. Corello** - Big Hit
3. Bosch** - Mediocre at best
4. Candlepower - Cheap, and still not worth it.
5. Marchal - Well respected brand from way back, but not a very good beam pattern.
6. Lucas** - Surprisingly bad. Less than mediocre
7. Cibié: (two types)
7a "Bobi" - First attempt at DOT legal, and a total miss. May not be available anymore anyway.
7b "Euro spec" - One of the best reputations out there. Haven't personally tried them, but worth mention from all the other feedback from our mass-buy 10 years ago.
8. Eagle Eye - Cheap imported stuff, with surprisingly good results. Early ones were junk, later ones were improved. Made a bit of a name for themselves later on.
9. ? - still trying to remember the other one I tried, but can't. It was junk too, so wanted to at least include it on the list!
10. Delta - haven't tried them personally, and it's what we've sold as our less expensive brand. From previous reports, they were harder to fit in a Bronco because the lamp reflector was too deep. Never heard that from any of our customers, but the one sold by BC under the same brand was talked about a lot on the forums. From all reports though, they had a decent beam pattern and good quality. Just hard to fit.
11. IPF - Also not tried, but because we sell them I get lots of feedback. Everyone I've talked to that has them say they like the beam pattern a lot. No issues with fit or quality. The Brand that ARB imports from Australia I think.
12. Dick Cepek** - private labeled Candlepower or Eagle Eye I think. Pretty bad.

**Oddly enough, several of the other brands listed all came from the Candlepower company as private labeled lamps. The boxes said Candlepower, but the lenses were cast with the name of the manufacturer in the glass, so you can tell what you're getting that way.

All of the above were H4 types, some of them of fairly old design. All comments were based on beam pattern. All used standard 55/60 H4 halogen bulbs. Didn't use any of them except for Hella and Cibié long enough to deduce quality of build, but all seemed adequate in that regard. Still, most of them had such crappy light output that they were not worth the wait to find out.
With current pricing and availability, don't go for any one with less than a stellar beam pattern reputation. You can pay as little as $12 each online, but in those extreme cases, you really do usually get what you pay for. I've heard one or two that are happy with their cheapies, but most hate them for their crappy light patterns, or they simply fall apart too soon.
The best bang-for-the-buck reports that I've heard come from Hella (bulbs included), IPF (except for the bulb prices), and the Cibié clones online. Blatant knockoffs, but seem to work well. Don't know if they come with bulbs or not. But of those I've only tried the Hella Euro.

Those listed are a miniscule example of what's out there nowadays, but at least are a known commodity as far as I'm concerned.
All tests were on my DD Bronco and '79 pickup, back when I was daily-driving them.

Hope that helps.

Paul

[welndmn]

Re: Headlights - bang for the buck

Have you seen some of the LED "H4" bulbs? Those pretty nice.
I've not looked into them as my bulbs are still good, but from the few pics I saw online they were impressive.

[DirtDonk]

Re: Headlights - bang for the buck

Not yet, but out of curiosity I just bought a set of 9006's for the Buick DD to see how they work. After seeing the LED-specific replacement lamps, I'm dying to try something that's even close to being that good.

Also picked up some #1156's for the backup lamps. Seen some that were truly impressive and wanted a piece of that action! I've already got the 50w incandescent replacements that were not that impressive for the amount of heat they produce. I use some 50w halogens in my Bronco backup lamps that really cranked out the power. But if I can get that same amount of light out of LED's that use a quarter of the power and put out less heat too, I'm all for it.

Paul

[polecat]

Re: Headlights - bang for the buck

My list would be similar to Paul's.

One "cheap" H4 that I really like is made by "JF" (Taiwan). I've seen three or four different lamps with this name on the lens, but the ones I'm talking about had a flat lens that looked like a Hella. I bought a pair new for 30 bucks back in the '80s from a place called SCS (Small Car Specialties) in El Lay. Put them in my Econoline pickup (another vehicle with high-mounted headlights) and loved them. The rubber boots that came with them disintegrated within months, but I borrowed some from another pair of H4 lamps (Cibie?) and those lasted for years and years. Big, square patch of light on the road, better than any new car I've driven. I had 55/100 bulbs in these for a while, and the high beams made all the street lights go out, but too much contrast for my old eyes to adjust to when going back and forth from high/low out in the boonies. Back to 55/60 now.

I ran a pair of Marchal H4 (round lens, not flat, cat logo in the middle of the lens) on my Econoline van for a while, and those were good also. Replaced them with a pair of Cibie "BOBI", which sucked until I modified them by breaking out the inner shield and installing regular H4 bulbs (55/60)in place of the notched base clear glass ones (55/65 special with no coating on the tip) that they came with. They say "DOT" on the lens and have the three aiming tits, so technically they'd be legal if I hadn't messed with them, but who's gonna know? I really like these, and I'm still driving the old van every day. I did have to reglue the lenses on after they separated a few years back and got wet inside, but some clear silicone fixed that.

I had a pair of Bosch flat lens lamps in my '65 Falcon wagon. Similar to the Hella flat lens ones, pretty decent.

My other Econoline van had a pair of Cibie european lamps, I think they were called "Z-beam". Expensive, and kind of a zig-zag pattern, higher on one side. Not enough spread, high to low, when mounted up high. I wouldn't buy those again.

I still like the Stanley lamps best in the Bronco.

JL/TMI

[Lars]

Re: Headlights - bang for the buck

Concur with Paul. Hella and Cibie (my fave, but more expensive) are really nice. Haven't tried IPFs but I understand they have a good rep. The problem with the cheap knockoffs, even if the beam pattern is good, is the adhesive used to bond the lens to the reflector doesn't last. Eventually the glue lets go.

My 55/100 bulbs have come from a variety of manufacturers. My current stash is Hella part number HL78158. Narva and Phillips make a version of the same thing. The 55/60 bulbs (which are legal) last longer, but I don't care. I want to see the asphalt in front of my Bronco start to smoke and eventually melt from the light intensity. Or something like that...

Once you try a set of H4 lamps you'll never go back. I've been running them in everything I could fit them in since the 70's. Back in those days the cops would bust me for them. I would have a set of sealed beams I'd put in to get them signed off. Then drive home and immediately re-install the H4's. Didn't care about the stupid lighting laws of the day. I wanted to be able to see where I was going.

[904Bronco]

Re: Headlights - bang for the buck

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lighting-...n=HLA002395991

Tony, I bought these for my 68 and had them on my 77. Very pleased with them.

D.

[CityHick]

Re: Headlights - bang for the buck

Thanks Doug, was looking at those and they may be the winner at that price. Still kind of digesting the rest of the info in this thread as well; its great to get first hand recommendations from you all. I am chipping away at my list of Bronco annoyances...

On a slightly unrelated tangent, while walking the dog last night I saw a guy in a lifted Duramax 2500 light up half a block with an LED light bar mounted above his windshield. So much light output... I was impressed.

[welndmn]

Re: Headlights - bang for the buck

Some pics of the led headlights.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/light...y-99-99-a.html