What cam for 5.0

[highlander]

So the EEC doesn't like less than 114 LS. And I thought I finaly had a cam picked out, I was going to go with 35-320-8. Here are the specs:

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Se...umber=35-320-8
I had to go a little diffrent since I have already invested in 1.7 ratio roller rockers. From everything I have read it sounds like the overlap hurts the computer, this is the first I have heard about lobe seperation. Any more insight on why?

Maybe this should have its own "cam" thread!

[Lars]

So the EEC doesn't like less than 114 LS. And I thought I finaly had a cam picked out, I was going to go with 35-320-8. Here are the specs:

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Se...umber=35-320-8
I had to go a little diffrent since I have already invested in 1.7 ratio roller rockers. From everything I have read it sounds like the overlap hurts the computer, this is the first I have heard about lobe seperation. Any more insight on why?

Maybe this should have its own "cam" thread!

I am so not a cam expert that I have to be careful what I write- mostly I'm good at remembering what I read, plus I can mix that with my own limited experience. But here goes...

The biggest PITA with low LSA cams is apparently the risk of a surging idle, especially with a hot start. Generally goes away when the ECU goes closed loop. Mine does. The surging idle problem even happened with some stock 5.0 Mustangs, often enough that Ford devised a bandaid solution of making an adjustable bleed air plate to go between the idle air bypass valve (IAB, also known as the idle speed control or ISC valve). Who knows why one engine ran fine when another apparently identical engine had surging problems? Could be that someone else with my combo would have no issues at all. Delta's cam apparently has a 112 degree LSA and he has no problems, but that cam also has less duration than mine.

As for the cam you picked out, I see it calls for 1.7 rockers. I feel your pain. The Crane cam I have required them too, so I have to get new ones to swap cams. Oh well. Thank goodness for Ebay... It'll be after the holidays before I can do the swap- no cash going to the Bronco during the holidays- but once I've done so I'll report back. That cam looks somewhat similar to the one I've got . Unfortunately unless you are putting it in a stroked 351W or something similar where it might actually be helpful to kill some low end in the interest of drivetrain survival, I have a hunch that you might be disappointed in the grunt. Or maybe not.

[highlander]

Thanks Lars, I have tried to find some more info on the LSA thing, and every thing I have read relates it to the overlap which is effected by the LSA and duration, from my calculations (????) the overlap on the XE 258Hr is 38°, the FW266h-14 (Patrick's) is 40°, and the one I am considering is 43°. Where the e303 that I have now has 62° of overlap and a LSA of 110°. By the way the motor I have is a 342 stroker w/ GT 40x heads my current setup doesn't give any idle surge, might just be lucky.
I am mainly looking for less duration to get the wider torque band and low end torque. I might still go with my choice as I think it will get me what I want, I am waiting for a response from comp cams to see what they think. I think this would be a great improvement for your setup if you don't change rockers. The crane 2031 has around a 55° overlap.

[720Racer]

Hello Lars,
And welcome! I'm interested to hear that you're thinking of changing out your 2031. I haven't put my 2030 in yet, and have been following this thread, and Patrick's pursuit of torque. I wonder if there are enough (ok, barley any) differences between the 2030 and the 2031?

Galen

[Lars]

Thanks Lars, I have tried to find some more info on the LSA thing, and every thing I have read relates it to the overlap which is effected by the LSA and duration, from my calculations (????) the overlap on the XE 258Hr is 38°, the FW266h-14 (Patrick's) is 40°, and the one I am considering is 43°. Where the e303 that I have now has 62° of overlap and a LSA of 110°. By the way the motor I have is a 342 stroker w/ GT 40x heads my current setup doesn't give any idle surge, might just be lucky.
I am mainly looking for less duration to get the wider torque band and low end torque. I might still go with my choice as I think it will get me what I want, I am waiting for a response from comp cams to see what they think. I think this would be a great improvement for your setup if you don't change rockers. The crane 2031 has around a 55° overlap.

I double-checked a couple of your calculations. No question marks needed, unless we are both wrong(!) Doubt that. I'm sure you are right- it's not just the LSA that matters. I'll likely go with one of the Comp cams, likely Patrick's, but I'm going to contact Competition Cams for their opinion before I buy anything. In any case, my wimpy 5.0 can use all it can get compared to your (and Patrick's) stroker! Here's one of the references to the 114 degree LSA: http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=9
The article is obviously describing generalities, for example with my Tweecer I can deal with non-stock air meters, different injector sizes, etc. In fact it was Ryan McCormick who owns that site that first advised me to get one. Of course when I did, it was so I could turn on the EDIS function in the A9L, not to do tuning, even though that's what I'm doing now.

Oh yeah- I guess it's time for that new thread

[Lars]

Hello Lars,
And welcome! I'm interested to hear that you're thinking of changing out your 2031. I haven't put my 2030 in yet, and have been following this thread, and Patrick's pursuit of torque. I wonder if there are enough (ok, barley any) differences between the 2030 and the 2031?

Galen

Hi Galen-

I reserve the right to be fickle I know I've spouted on and on about the Crane cams in times past, but I'm realizing that there are better options out there. It's amazing how much more knowledge there is as regards injected roller engines going into Broncos now than there was when I started doing this stuff. If you haven't put that cam in, I'd recommend dumping it in favor of Carl's advice. Having driven a few Broncos in the last year with more torque-oriented cams I've realized it's time to eat some crow and admit that there are (much) better cam profiles than the 2030/2031 for a 5.0-equipped Bronco. The good news is that the Crane 2020 to which I've steered some people isn't that far removed from the cam Carl recommended, so at least I haven't given bad information to everyone

[720Racer]

Lars,

Please don't think I'm complaining. I'm just learning as I go. I was much busier this summer and fall than I wanted to be, so I'm not as far along as I hoped to be, but this means I can still change my mind (everything I've done seems like I've changed my mind (NP435/ZF-5, carbed 289/5.0, 5 lug D44/looking for a D60, 4.56/4.88, 35's/37's) once or twice). I want the torque for wheeling and the revs for hot rodding around town, so I'm just learning vicariously through every one else.

[End Hi-jack/]

Galen

[crawlin68]

I split the thread and renamed it, so now it's all about cams.

[highlander]

Well I heard back from Comp cams, they suggested the following with the 1.7 rockers yields .544 lift int. & exhaust, I sent back some questions, I think I want less duration but from the way it sounds I can get the 35-349-8 (intended for 1.6 rockers) and get all the same specs as the 35-320-8 but with a 114° LSA:

The camshaft I would use with your application is a part number 35-351-8. I have included the specs to the camshaft below.
Thanks, Sam
Cam Spec Card Inquiry

PART NO. 35-351-8

01 INTAKE MASTER 3611F

02 EXHAUST MASTER 3612F

03 ENGINE FW XE270HR-14

04 GRIND NUMBER FW XE270HR-14

INT EXH

05 HYDRAULIC Y/N YES 14 DUR @.050 218 224

INTAKE EXHAUST 15 LOBE LIFT .3210 .3210

06 VALVE ADJUSTMENT HYD HYD 16 ROCKER RATIO .00 .00

07 MAX GROSS VALVE LIFT .512 .512

08 DUR @ .006 TAPPET LIFT 270 276 17 LOBE SEPARATI 114.0

18 ADVANCE 4

09 VALVE TIMING OPEN CLOSE 19 VALVE SPRINGS 986-16

@ .006 10 INT 23 66

11 EXH 74 21 DATE SETUP / /

12 THESE SPECS ARE FOR CAM(S) INSTALLED

@ 110.0 INTAKE CENTERLINE

[Broncrick]

Dang am I getting educated in 5.0 cams! Guess once the dust settles I'm going to pick one up also to improve the low end!

Rick-

[highlander]

I got the answers to my question's. Comp cams claims the 114° LSA only creates issues on cams w/ durations over 270°. so in the short duration cams it shouldn't be an issue. They also stated that the larger LSA (114°) will give a broader power curve, but the 112° will provide higher torque.

So now I just need to decide between the 35-349-8 with the 114° LSA and the 35-320-8 with the 112° seperation. They recommended installing both at a 108° intake CL.

[Lars]

I got the answers to my question's. Comp cams claims the 114° LSA only creates issues on cams w/ durations over 270°. so in the short duration cams it shouldn't be an issue. They also stated that the larger LSA (114°) will give a broader power curve, but the 112° will provide higher torque.

So now I just need to decide between the 35-349-8 with the 114° LSA and the 35-320-8 with the 112° seperation. They recommended installing both at a 108° intake CL.

Thanks for doing the legwork! I need to let that soak in and make a decision.

[highlander]

Thanks for doing the legwork! I need to let that soak in and make a decision.

Not a problem.
Let us know the results if you get yours in before me!

[Lars]

Not a problem.
Let us know the results if you get yours in before me!

You brought up a good point. One of the things holding me back from the swap is the fact that I have 1.7:1 roller rockers now. I automatically figured I'd have to dump them in favor of 1.6:1 rollers. Dump= expensive, and it's Christmas, so no Bronco funds. BUT... I should call Comp and ask them for a recommendation. Maybe I don't need to swap rockers after all. A good (cheaper) thing, so I won't have to wait so long.

[craigg]

Hey Guys...here's my custom grind. My EB has a stockish Explorer 5.0 w/GT40P heads, NV4500, Atlas 5.0, 4.56's, & 35's (

Int Open/Close
2*BTC / 36*ABC

Exh Open/Close
47*BTC / 3*BTC

Duration Int/Exh
270* / 276*

Lift Int/Exh
0.566 / 0.536

Lobe Centerline Int/Exh
107* / 117*

Like I said, it's a custom grind, but here is the FRPP sheet for ref: http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/charts/85.pdf

It's not back together yet, but I gave them Lars' cam specs (2031) and his thoughts about how it performed & what I wanted to do with it & this is what I got back...I'll update performance once I'm running again.

Edit: I'm running stock explorer 1.6 rockers w/upgraded springs.