Lift kit brands?? James Duff, WH, Cage

[azlamm68bronco]

I am restoring my '68 bronco and now getting to the fun parts of all the accessories and add ons. Right now I'm looking at lift kits, I've been searching for the Cage lift kits but can't find a website for their products, just googled it. I am looking to do about a 3 1/2" lift with 33's. Seen some pictures of other Broncos lifted like this and like the set up. I will mainly be using the bronco as a daily driver and little off-roading for now. Just curious what everything thinks would be the best lift kit between James duff, WH, and Cage(if I can find the website for Cage products). I want the bronco to have a nice smooth ride and the abilty to go off-road if I wanted to. I like the dual shocks at each corner and want to do a 3 1/2" lift so it doesn't screw with my driveshaft angles even though I will still probably get some shims for the back springs to fix the angle on the rear driveshalf. Also which one is better and what's the difference between the trac bar drop bracket and the trac bar riser.
Thanks for any suggestions
Zach

[CityHick]

Re: Lift kit brands?? James Duff, WH, Cage

Cage is out of business. Jim Cole (the guy who designed the Cage/Duff radius arms) started Bloody Knuckle Garage and you can get the parts from him now: http://www.bloodyknucklegarage.com/.
Jim is a good guy to talk to about suspension, give him a call or shoot him an email. His radius arms are really nice.

Shocks are a subject of debate - for the most part, the dual shock mounts are a throwback to when "good" lift shocks were not as common. They still have their place - ie dual shocks for high speed applications, theoretically keeps the shocks from getting too hot by spreading the work between two, but most people can get the ride/handling they want from good quality singles - Bilsteins, etc. The "white box" shocks that come from the vendors are cheap and when mounted as singles they are not up to the task.

Driveline angles are easy to correct at 3.5" of lift. Angled c-bushings up front and shims (the kind that bolt to the spring pack) out back will suit you well. Or if you are ambitious, you can cut and re-weld the perches on the rear axle.

[azlamm68bronco]

Re: Lift kit brands?? James Duff, WH, Cage

I have been to that bloody knuckle garage, I've seen just the front coil springs, I was seeing if he did like a full suspension system like duff or WH has with theirs.

[azlamm68bronco]

Re: Lift kit brands?? James Duff, WH, Cage

So pretty much the shocks included with the duff and WH lift kits are pretty crappy? Seen and heard a lot of people use the belstein shocks on their bronco's

[904Bronco]

Re: Lift kit brands?? James Duff, WH, Cage

I have a WH 2.5 lift on my 68. The shocks are their standard brand, which work fine for me doing the daily drive thing. Bilsteins would be a step up from there.

I had dual shocks on two of my broncos... the ride sucked. I have only run a single shock. The quality and engineering of shocks today has greatly improved from the 70's and 80's. If that is the look you want, you need to run some light weight shocks, so the two of them together will equal one. Two shocks are really for Dessert racing where they are cycling (up and down) a lot.

WH uses a progressive rate spring, I am more partial to the linear rate spring that BCB sells. The wrap of that coil is consistent throughout the length of the spring. You can buy the springs in 1/2" lift measurements to add additional lift if you have a winch bumper, winch, dual batteries, anything that might add weight to the front that causes your lift to drop. I think the ride is just as good as progressive rate springs.
Progressive springs have a lighter wrap at the top, which is supposed to give a nice ride. What usually happens is they (the light wrap) compress over time and they are not as effective.

WH is close and they stand by their products. Shipping stuff across the country adds to the cost.

Trac bar riser is the better way to go, the drop bracket extender for the trac bar tends to load that point on the frame and can cause it be torn off the frame when off-roading. Drop brackets have been used for years and the riser is a recent addition.

With a 3.5" lift you should consider a drop pitman arm, the shims in the back, 7* C bushings in the front and an adjustable trac arm as well.

Dirtdonk, aka Paul Brannon is working tomorrow at WH. Give him a call and have him give you the dirt on WH suspensions. He lives in San Jose and can save you some shipping $$ if you buy from WH if you are local to the Bay Area

[CityHick]

Re: Lift kit brands?? James Duff, WH, Cage

I obviously didn't spend enough time on the Bloody Knuckle Garage site to notice they don't sell leaf springs. May be worth a call anyway.

As Doug said WH is closer and shipping can be a deal killer - they do stand behind their products.

I am pretty interested in the leaf springs from BC Broncos, they use fewer leafs but the leafs are thicker. The industry has moved to really soft springs and with that, axle wrap is more of a problem. You may be surprised at how much the leafs can wrap. There are a number of devices on the market to help tame that, but in my stubbornness I am convinced that a better spring design may strike a compromise - ie not allow for max flex but also control wrap better. Its a topic I've been researching a while now but options are limited.

As for the rest of the stuff - I would recommend that you install the springs and see where you're at in terms of steering geometry, and proceed with an axle riser and whatever means of correcting the drag link angle best applies. Sometimes flipping the tie rod to the top of the knuckles can correct the drag link angle (and give a little more clearance in the process).

[azlamm68bronco]

Re: Lift kit brands?? James Duff, WH, Cage

So when people say they have like a 3 1/2" Cage lift, it's pretty much from what I have seen on the bloodyknuckle.com website, they use their front coil springs then they choose either WH or Duff rear leaf springs? Also I bought the proto-fab front winch bumper and rear bumper with fire carrier, I've heard that if you have a bumper like that with a winch you need to bump up the front springs like an inch. So in my case wanting a 3 1/2" lift should I get 4 1/2" front springs? Another question on all the different shock mounts out there, which ones are recommended? Like I said before I want to do the 2 shocks at each corner of the bronco. I have been looking at the WH Classic shock hoops for the front and then the rear the WH Shock Jock system but don't want to do a body lift, any suggestions on a different route? A big thing for me is ride quality and being able to take it off-road if I want. I know doing a lift messes with the front and rear geometry such as the drive shaft angles and caster angle and that's where the C-bushings come in to help, I also already have the WH Chromoly adjustable trac bar, The trac bar riser, rear leaf spring degreed shims, drop pitman arm, is there anything else I need to take into consideration? I have seen the WH degreed rubber strut arm bushings, as much as I want to get longer radius arms like the Cage or Duff I just can't fit $700-$800 extra to the lift kit. One more question is brake lines, thinking I'm going to piece together this lift kit with the Cage front springs and either WH or BCB rear springs, is there anything else I need to look into getting like smaller things like longer brake lines or E-brake cables, the WH extreme U-bolt kit? Sorry for all the questions just about to order everything with my bronco coming back from paint next week. Thanks a ton for everyone's suggestions. About all the lift kit questions probably be easier just to suggest if you were in my position what you order part by part for a 3 1/2" lift. Thanks again

[blwngsket]

Re: Lift kit brands?? James Duff, WH, Cage

A lot of people wind up with a mixture of vendors parts to make up a lift.
Its not the easiest way to do it, but the results work out pretty well. I think the cage style arms work better than the WH extended style arms. Duff sells a complete kit that uses an identical cage type arm. If you like the color blue.
I have a combo of WH and Duff products for my lift. With some ballistic brackets thrown in here and there.
And that's about to change again.
Continue with the research. This forum is a huge wealth of knowledge.
Don't be me and do your suspension 3 .. no.. make that 4 different times.

[blwngsket]

Re: Lift kit brands?? James Duff, WH, Cage

Longer brake lines.
Longer e brake line or lower the e brake bracket under the rig.
possible d shaft issues. 3.5 shouldn't be an issue, but.....
If body lifting, you may have to deal with steering column issues, possible radiator/fan shroud clearance issues. If you have a column mounted auto shifter. Linkage issues. If you have a clutch pedal. Linkage issues. And don't forget the rear tank fill hose. All of the body lift remarks are dependent on the amount of BL of course. Most can be remedied with little to no money expenditures though.
if using a standard radius arm, whether extended or not, that uses the stud/donut for the frame mount, i would definitely use the degreed rubber grommets.
allows more front end flex. Poly just doesn't move.
I know there's more. There's always more.
Good luck

[jamesroney]

Re: Lift kit brands?? James Duff, WH, Cage

I am restoring my '68 bronco (snip) I will mainly be using the bronco as a daily driver and little off-roading for now. (snip)
Zach

Need a little more info on what that means. If your Bronco has a manual transmission, then it matters. The first thing you will find when you run 33's is that the stock 3 speed is not up to the task. So then you might want an upgrade. If you go with a NP435, or a NV4500, then you will want a body lift. Which might change how much suspension lift you need.

For a daily driver, and light off road, I would run a 1 inch full bushing body lift, and a 2.5 inch suspension...with cut fenders.

I always run dual shocks on the rear axle. Note that Bronco's have a very steep angle on the rear shocks, and so they are not 100% efficient. This helps to control axle wrap and wheel hop. A good 70/30 pair at each wheel works. I like dual Rancho RS5000 in the rear, and adjustable RS9000 up front.

I bought the Duff 5.5 extreme lift, then lowered it with Wild H 3.5 coils, and Deaver 3.5 11 packs in the rear. Wild H weld on 2.5 hoops, and OEM type dual shocks. With a 2 inch body lift and Track bar bracket. My 35x13.5x15 BGF Krawlers nibble the uncut front fenders occasionally.

(Wild H used to publish pictures and specs of customer rigs in their catalog. Always a good idea to copy a build that works!)

[azlamm68bronco]

Re: Lift kit brands?? James Duff, WH, Cage

Thanks again everyone for all their suggestions. One more question about shocks looking at the WH website, looking at the rancho shocks on there if I go with piecing together a lift kit, there is a bunch of different shocks that are different by the extended and compressed numbers. I could see a difference in having a long travel suspension needing different shocks compared to a regular lift kit. Which shocks would be the ones for a lift that I will probably do with front classic shock hoop by WH, guessing this would be something I call WH about when I start ordering all the different components

[CityHick]

Re: Lift kit brands?? James Duff, WH, Cage

Best bet is to install the springs, then take measurements. WH can set you up with shocks that are in the ballpark, but there are so many variables. For your purposes though I am sure its not too difficult to just go with their recommendation.

[Efibroncoman]

Re: Lift kit brands?? James Duff, WH, Cage

I would highly recommend the Duff/Cage radius arms. They really smooth out the ride of your Bronco and help even with expansion joints in the freeway. Yes, the price tag hurts a bit but believe me, they are one of the best purchases you will make and you will not regret it!