Looking for some loaner parts to test a fix

[slow poke]

I am continuing to experience some major steering problems. The bronco is very twitchy...darting left and right with very little input from the wheel. Virtually all the steering is new. The vehicle actually drove very nice prior to a very minor accident where I bent the track bar drop bracket. I ended up putting on a axel riser bracket and replaced the frame bracket with a stock like bracket. The track bar and drag link are still parallel, but are now separated by about 3-4 inches vertically. The frame side pivots for the track bar and drag link were pretty close together when I had the drop track bar bracket, and are now spaced apart. I would like to try to get the frame side pivots close to each other again, and would like to drop the track bar on the frame and/or raise my pitman arm.

Might anyone have a pitman arm with little to no drop and a track bar bracket I could try to see if this works????

Alternately I could go to knuckle over arms on my Dana 60 king pin if anyone has arms I could try????

Appreciate your help and ideas.

[Efibroncoman]

Re: Looking for some loaner parts to test a fix

If you haven't already, I would check your steering shaft u-joint(s) and rag joint if you have one. Also, are you running the nylon kingpin races? I have heard that those do not last long with big tires and off-roading, maybe you cracked one during the minor accident. I've also heard that the kingpin springs contribute to slop in the steering. Better to check everything for adjustment first than start throwing parts at it. If you do decide to change your track bar bracket on the frame, just get a Ruff Stuff bracket... they're really tough and if you weld that on so the pivot bolt is at about the same height as the pitman arm you should eliminate any slop.

[slow poke]

Re: Looking for some loaner parts to test a fix

All good advise I think, thank you! I do have the plastic bushing on the king pins and have not pulled them apart, but have done the best I can to test the king pins for movement, both weighted and un-weighted. I can pull the caps tomorrow and see if the springs are shot, or if the plastic cups were damaged. It would be good to know for sure if everything is solid before I blame it on the track bar.

I have checked the steering shaft joints and they all are sound. Steering box seems properly adjusted, with no tight spots and no slop/looseness in the center of rotation.

If I do go after trying to get the track bar and drag link back on the same plane, I think I may leave the track bar high....and raise the steering.drag link. I would need to go with dana 60 high steer arms and a pitman arm with less drop.

First however is to dig deeper and try to eliminate all other possibilities.

[slow poke]

Re: Looking for some loaner parts to test a fix

Here is a picture of my steering as it sits now. Track bar is parallel to drag link, but about 4 inches higher than it used to be. Seems like even though the two are parallel, the fact that the pivot points are so far out of plane makes them have radically different arcs when compressing or extending.

Also my track bar is much shorter than the drag link....

Could this be the problem?

[earlybronco72]

Re: Looking for some loaner parts to test a fix

Easiest way I have found to check for bump steer is to bounce on the front bumper and watch the steering wheel. If you have bump steer the steering wheel will rotate back and forth.
Your setup looks just like mine, and I didn't have any issues.

[Spaceburger]

Re: Looking for some loaner parts to test a fix

Sounds like it took a huge hit. Did u check the bolts on steering box to frame?

[Broncrick]

Re: Looking for some loaner parts to test a fix

Geometry looks just like mine

[tim]

Re: Looking for some loaner parts to test a fix

I have a pitman arm that you could try. I can't really tell from your picture if it's shallower than yours though. It's about a 3" drop.

Also, it looks like the double shock hoops are bolted. Should those be welded instead? Did you check the hoop attachment points for cracks from the impact?

Here's the pic of the pitman arm.

[DirtDonk]

Re: Looking for some loaner parts to test a fix

After the accident, his frame was checked, gusseted on both sides with 3/16" plates, 4x4x2 box was replaced just in case, and everything else checks out good using the usual tests.
Short of pulling each component apart (such as the king-pins), it all checks out solid.
That's what's been so confusing and why he's trying to rule out the non-obvious things now.

He did check the 4 (8 halves?) bushings connecting the radius arms to the axle, but not sure how extensive the test was.

Paul

[DirtDonk]

Re: Looking for some loaner parts to test a fix

Geometry looks just like mine

Yeah, that's kind of what we were discussing Rick.
But the thinking went that, while hundreds, if not thousands of people are running the riser instead of the drop, the angles are no longer "factory" and the lengths were no longer "factory", so it was at least worth a quick tweaking of the angles to rule that out as a possibility.
Hence the request for "temporary" use of someone's arms and brackets.
A quick drive without even welding a drop bracket on would tell the tale.

Since it rode so well before the accident, and so horrible after the accident, and supposedly anything obviously damages was fixed between the body shop and Arabia's, we're grasping at straws.
Other than those fixes, nothing changed other than the trackbar and mounts. And doing so not only did not fix the problem, but Dave is on the fence as to whether it actually drove worse after getting it back or if that's just imagination playing tricks.
Nothing else looks or feels out of whack. From the steering wheel, shaft, u-joints, box, frame, trackbar, bushings, radius arms, king-pins, draglink and tie-rod ends, wheel bearings and wheels.

For those that missed it, here's the discussion: http://www.norcalbroncos.com/forum/s...t=11805&page=2

The only thing else that is under scrutiny that he has not been able to test is the theory that one or more tires is bad. That's a real possibility still, but he has not been able to test that yet.

Anybody on the Peninsula have a set of tires and wheels with the normal 5-bolt pattern but that will the larger D60 hubs?

[DirtDonk]

Re: Looking for some loaner parts to test a fix

The king-pin inspection is a good idea. Easy for me to say, right Dave?
It's only been tested by the two normal methods. Rocking the tires from 12-and-6 to see if there was movement, and steering the wheel back and forth while feeling the area around the steering knuckles and steering yokes.
Solid as a rock to the initial testing.

What do you guys use to test king-pin setups? Is inspection by removal the only way? Or can you use a prybar in some specific spot/angle to test for excess movement that you would normally not see?

[904Bronco]

Re: Looking for some loaner parts to test a fix

Have you tried rotating tires frt to back and back to frt yet?

[slow poke]

Re: Looking for some loaner parts to test a fix

I pulled the king pin caps today and the nylon bushings and springs seem fine.

There certainly is bump steer as bouncing the bumper while sitting does rock the wheel, as does accelerating and decelerating on the road.

The hit was actually pretty mild, first glance seemed to have bent the track bar bracket enough to cock the wheel about 1/2 turn left. In a rush to replace the track bar with an adjustable version we switched to axel riser from frame drop on the track bar, and installed an adjustable bar with heims both sides rather than going with a custom bent adjustable bar for the dana 60.

Just confirming that Rick and Mark have parallel and out of plane track bars and drag links....and they work. Drawing out the monkey motion when the pivot seems to say that there should be lots of bump steer. Do your guys track bars sit higher than the drag link?

Next thing on the list is more rotation of tires. I have tried front swap, but nit rear swap, but Arabia's said they tried this. I will confirm.

[Mike]

Re: Looking for some loaner parts to test a fix

I have a pitman arm made out of flat stock if you want to try it.
Making your drag link steeper doesn't make sense to me but that doesn't mean much. Personally I would try a steeper track bar, move it to the lower hole at the axle. A better setup would be a longer track bar. You have the room.

[71BRONCO71]

Re: Looking for some loaner parts to test a fix

see if you can get a video of the front end while turning the wheel back and forth when running.
Post it here and lets see what we come up with.